Core Bariatrics

Episode 13: Talking with Others

• Dr. Maria Iliakova & Tammie Lakose

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Have you ever tiptoed around a conversation, feeling the weight of words unsaid? This week, we wade into the complexities of discussing bariatric surgery, sharing stories that resonate with the need for empathy and understanding in these intimate dialogues. Reflecting on an encounter that struck a nerve, we dissect the nuances of suggesting such personal medical decisions. It's a candid look at confronting societal judgments, where we compare the wide acceptance of certain medical aids to the stigma that shrouds weight loss surgery and reveal how we've grown more confident in standing up for our stories.

Navigating the rough seas of toxic relationships, this episode doesn't just skirt the storm, it sails right through. We unveil the gritty reality of trying—and sometimes failing—to turn the tide on someone's perspective, and why it's sometimes necessary to drop anchor and sail away for the sake of self-respect. We share our arsenal of tactics for bracing difficult conversations, from setting time limits to the power of a simple "no." It's an episode that reaffirms the notion that our worth is not tethered to others' viewpoints, and that being open to the ever-evolving conversation on weight and health is a voyage we're all on together.

As the curtains draw on this episode, it's not a farewell but a heartfelt thanks and a "see you later" that we extend to you, our dedicated listeners. We invite you to keep the conversation alive by joining our vibrant online community, where the support and insights continue to flourish beyond the microphone. We part with laughter and a promise to return with more stories that stir the soul and support that strengthens the spirit. And if you want to stay looped into our journey, follow us on Instagram at Core Bariatrics. Here's to the next chapter, and to each of you who make this podcast a harbor for hope and understanding.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by Bariatric Surgeon Dr Maria Iliakova and Tammy LaCos, bariatric Coordinator and a patient herself. Our goal is building and elevating our community. The Core Bariatric Podcast does not offer medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. On this podcast, we aim to share stories, support and insight into the world beyond the clinic. Let's get into it. Hi Tammy, hello Maria, how are you? I'm pretty well. How are you? I'm pretty good. Pretty good. It's been a chill Sunday. We're a week away from when we were in Florida and I'm just now being able to relax.

Speaker 2:

Oh my goodness, at least the weather here hasn't been too bad. It's been like fifties, which is unheard of. Not too bad at all. No, for January and February in Iowa, that's pretty unprecedented.

Speaker 1:

I think Absolutely Alright, so we didn't talk much. So tell me what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2:

We're actually talking about talking with others. Hey, talking about talking.

Speaker 1:

Sounds good. How do we get a whole episode with that?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my goodness, there's so much to break down here. I actually want to tell you a story. When I, way before I did bariatric surgery as a profession, when I was a resident, I remember being on this rotation in bariatric surgery. We had a fellowship where I was a resident and a really good one, like really great doctors and it was really well organized and stuff like one of the best nurse practitioners. I've ever worked with Julie on that team, anyway. So I remember mentioning to somebody who was in for a totally different reason in the hospital and things like that I was just inspired about bariatrics at the time hey, you should consider bariatric surgery. And the person looked at me like I had, I don't know, cut them or something and literally said, why? So I can kill myself. And I was so taken aback. And this is years ago now, this is probably four or five years ago, and I think I just I didn't know what to say. I had no idea how. I think probably the way that I raised the subject wasn't the best and I was so taken aback. And how do you even how do you recover?

Speaker 1:

How do you even respond?

Speaker 2:

to that? I didn't, I think. I just said okay, something like that, and I said I hope you have a nice day and left, or something silly. Because how do you respond to that, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think on this topic you start talking about it, then you start, you really do start to read the room and read if they are interested or just absolutely not interested, or even if you're going to get through to them at all.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And now I realize, looking back at that situation, that my my delivery was pretty dumb and that is not something to talk about with someone when they're in the hospital for a different reason. It is absolutely not a conversation to spring on people and it can come off as really judgmental or really patronizing and things like that. So I know that now.

Speaker 1:

And you have taught me that now for sure.

Speaker 2:

You too. You've taught me that too. Please read there.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and so I think, talking with others, I've been on both sides of the boat of being completely silent and now talking about it all the time. So, I think. Definitely shoot me with questions. We'll go through why at the beginning I did not talk about it at all and now why I talk about it all the dang time, and people probably get annoyed by it.

Speaker 2:

So I do want to ask you because I think when you first came in, I remember you sharing some experiences that it was really tough to even be there and considering bariatric surgery. That's correct, right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely yeah. It was hard to finally pull the trigger. It was hard to be even in the office, because even though people are in the medical field, they don't necessarily they aren't all warm and fuzzy, let's be honest. So I felt judgment even in the office. Yes and yes. So it was very hard at the beginning to get through the door.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think that judgment and prejudice about bariatric surgery is super common, whether it's in a doctor's office, surprisingly, or we were in Florida right last week for a convention and we were super giddy and excited about this new podcast, that we were always saying all about our bariatric community and creating really good materials for people and good stories to share and things like that, and we were approached. No, so we, yeah, we were approached right In a conversation that we were having with someone else and as soon as we mentioned the topic of our podcast being bariatric surgery, this guy who is I think he was like an, I don't know an actor or something like not a healthcare professional, not somebody in this field whatsoever who got in my face basically and said the solution is these four things. And it was like cayenne, pepper saunas and some other Dude one please get out of my face and stop mansplaining this situation to me. And two, like it's. Also, it struck me that's a pretty common response that people have.

Speaker 1:

And I think that was the first time I ever truly got upset during a conversation about bariatric surgery because I could just sense in his demeanor how much judgment there was there. And no, he clearly was not a healthcare provider, but he clearly thought he knew it all because he successfully was a in shape kind of buff guy. So I feel like the gym people that are kind of beefheads tend to think that they know the calories in, calories out, just move more All of that. They don't understand the more of it obviously.

Speaker 2:

So that's how he took, how I took him as and it was a pretty visceral response and I will say that's not uncommon he just happened to voice it out loud, which some people don't. It was frustrating, though, to realize, but I think this, especially coming out of the COVID pandemic and things like that there's a lot of skepticism of healthcare providers or people who are professionals to actually understand the field they work in, and it totally extends absolutely to weight and weight management, where everyone has an opinion and not all of those opinions are validated by actual fact or Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think a lot of people now even make my comments with, or my conversation with, a grain of salt, because I still feel like they think that I have no education there and that I've just strictly been through the process Right, when in reality, I really do try to not tell, talk about things that aren't like science based or like you've told me, or stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

So Right and we've approached it with a lot of curiosity, which I think, if we're dealing with something that we don't really understand or we don't have expertise in, I think is a really great place to start. Even if we have expertise and knowledge in, I think it's a good place to start is being curious about the subject and realizing that we don't know everything about it. There's a lot more to learn about it, but that just doesn't seem to be where a lot of people in the public or, honestly, even in the healthcare profession, necessarily start. So it is really different to me. I have not experienced anywhere near as much of the prejudice and the judgment as other people have when we talk about bariatric surgery, because I, pretty much off the bat, introduced myself as, like, a surgeon and I do have a weight that is below a BMI of 25 and I think that shields me from some of the like criticism, judgment that people face. But I do see it happening and hear the stories of it happening to other people and it is horrifying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah it's, it's not fun to go through. I will say and I think you are absolutely correct that just by your profession and just your BMI status, that I think you are 100% guarded by some of that.

Speaker 2:

And that, and even then, I still see the crazy risk. Not I wouldn't even say that the opinions themselves are crazy or that people are crazy, but the way that people are willing to treat each other on this topic. I think that is actually crazy in some ways, because Absolutely, yeah, it's so disrespectful and it's it infuses morality where it doesn't belong and it also, I think, deprives people of privacy in a lot of ways. Absolutely, because if this is a health issue for someone and it may be then why on earth would you think you could weigh in on that? Yeah, and if it's not a health issue and it's just a personal issue for someone, it's asking someone like what's your deepest, most personal fear in life? And let's talk about it. Really Stranger. You're so right, you're so right and I have felt uncomfortable talking about my weight for my entire life pretty much and still struggle with that and things, and I'm just like this is a really strange thing for people to feel comfortable like announcing their knowledge to the world about or announcing their opinion to the world about, especially when it involves someone else.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 2:

But I don't know. But I also understand I think you've mentioned this too of not really wanting to have to explain your reasoning or not having wanting to be forced into a conversation about this when you don't want to have that conversation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I will say what before I had surgery, honestly, a handful of people knew and I don't necessarily want to say that I cared that anybody knew I was not in the place to be able to defend my decision. Not that I cared to or not, because I am very much so a person that I'll do what I want to do and I don't care what your opinion is but I wasn't in a place to be able to defend it in a manner that I think would be beneficial, if that's the word, or yeah. So I didn't tell a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, I just didn't want to explain myself. I didn't want to explain myself.

Speaker 2:

You said the word defend my decision, and I'm really curious about that, because I have never heard of somebody having to defend cancer treatment or defend taking a medication for diabetes, for instance.

Speaker 1:

Or defending having a hip replacement or anything like that. Yes, please, yeah, it's sad because I had to. I feel like I had to explain myself that, look, I have tried all of these diets all the time. Look, I love working out, I love healthy food, all the things are there. I just my body wasn't doing what apparently it should have been doing with what I was giving it. And a previous episode with Dr Jessica Smith, she kept saying how, like, more diets that you're on actually hurts your metabolism more than helps it and it just keeps getting harder and harder. And I also was going back and forth between 100 pounds within five years because I had my two kids and I've lost weight and all that. And so I've done all the things I tried. Fentermene didn't have a great reaction to it, though it did curb my hunger, didn't help anything else, and it's the second you get off of it. Now your hunger is back now. So I feel like I just had to defend why I thought bariatric surgery was where I needed to go, because, yes, everybody thinks it's your last ditch effort and like you've done something wrong and now you can't dig yourself out of that hole.

Speaker 2:

And I think that all of that kind of misinformation or misconceptions about weight excuse the pun, but they weigh really heavy on people who are making the decision to consider either bariatric surgery or other approaches or have gone through it and we just we live in a world that really is not accepting of updated information on this and accepting people as trying things for their health or trying to do things without having to defend themselves and without having to go through that whole spiel of I've tried this and I've tried that and I've failed at this and failed at that. And I don't understand why we force people with this specific health condition to defend their actions in a way we don't with others.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you brought up diabetes and or cancer treatment. Sorry, but I went on the road of diabetes. No one's going to question a person if, right from the get go, they decide to get an insulin pump If they need it Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or if no one's going to question somebody if they need a hip replacement. If they need a hip replacement, right, they're not going to go. Oh, you don't deserve a hip replacement. Why would you do that? That's extreme, all that kind of thing. But yet we seem to interject a lot of public opinion and kind of uninformed opinion into this otherwise pretty private individual matter for people and private decision and make it create a public forum around it. And it's super, I think, understandable for people not to want to talk about it if it's going to become a public question and answer session and I also think this could relate to.

Speaker 1:

We also have a fertility episode and I guarantee women are not going around being like oh yeah, I'm struggling with fertility, I've been having to do these injections, I've been having to try, or I've had to try this, that or the other thing, because, guess what, I guarantee people are going to weigh in of, oh, did you try this? Oh, did you try this? Oh, you need to stop stressing out and just go with the flow, it'll happen. Oh, you need to be on your head five minutes for five minutes after going to court or whatever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is how firm work. By the way, definitely 100%. That is how that works.

Speaker 1:

But, yeah, I just keep feeling all these, or realizing all these analogies that truly are just lighting my light bulbs, going off of all this makes sense and just why is this so different than anything else?

Speaker 2:

Yeah and okay. So now we've talked about some of the reasons why it's so tough to talk with other people about bariatric surgery and about making this decision or once you've made it and gone through it. So how, if you feel like talking with someone about it, how would you approach it?

Speaker 1:

If I felt like talking about it to someone, I just bring it up. Now I do, now I do Honestly. If anybody brings up anything that has to do with weight in the room, I'm like I've had bariatric surgery and if you're more about it, like what made you think?

Speaker 2:

what changed your? You said that in the beginning that really wasn't your approach. What changed for you?

Speaker 1:

Because I am so much more educated now because I've had multiple doctors outside of you and I'm kind of even people that you are affiliated with in any manner just keep educating me of. It is way more than eating less and moving more. It's way more, and I want to drill this in people's heads, especially the guy that's trying to tell me to sit in a sauna and eat some cayenne pepper.

Speaker 2:

He sounds like yeah, it sounds like a lonely endeavor to do that, and I don't mean there were other things on his list too. But you're right, I am so appreciative that you're willing to go out there and say things, because I do think it takes a lot of courage in an environment that oftentimes will judge and will shame and will not accept the fact that there's information out there yeah, there's that is available and it's accurate, it's validated. But you're still going to get the brunt of people's misguided and sometimes it's misguided good intention, but it really doesn't matter if it's good or bad intention, if it's misguided right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, actually, you're totally right, and I think prior to having surgery as well, when I wasn't telling people, I just didn't have the confidence to even again have those conversations. And, as I've said before, I feel like, even if people don't think they're treating me differently, I feel like people are treating me differently, like baseball moms more willing to approach me. I just feel like people are more treating me like a normal person, which what is normal of these days? But now that I am more educated, I am quote unquote maybe more normal. I don't even know more size.

Speaker 2:

that society accepts women, especially at being, I think is normally normal means in that sense and I don't agree with it being like normal quote unquote. But I think that society definitely treats people differently, based on different weights, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so now I think people are more willing to listen to me Because I'm I wouldn't say I'm this great success story by any means, but that I've been through this, I've done well and again, more. Quote unquote normal people are more willing to listen.

Speaker 2:

Tammy, I would actually totally disagree with you there for a second and I'll say really. Yeah, because I think you are. You've said something that was like I haven't been successful. I think you've been out of the ballpark successful.

Speaker 1:

No, I know it's been successful, but just I'm not like this like miraculous, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

But that's not what successful is. I don't think I think successfully. You've gone from. Your confidence has changed drastically. Your ability to perceive what's changing in you and to have an influence on that and an influence on other people is way different now than it was a year and a half ago. And whatever, at whatever weight, at whatever any kind of sign on a scale or anything like that, I think the way that your life has changed and your mind has grown through this process, especially on behalf of other people, I think is pretty darn remarkable.

Speaker 1:

And here we are, welcoming everyone to the. Maria talks to Tammy to stop or not yelling, but being like shut up. Why are you talking down on yourself, Guys? This is almost a day to day thing and for a together day to day I love it, but it's true we got to build each other up.

Speaker 2:

I don't think that you're right, because I would never talk to anybody else like that. You're right and you don't talk to anybody else like that. That's the whole thing, is the only thing I've ever heard you say about anyone we've ever taken care of or anyone that we were out dancing. I think one of the nights that we were in Orlando and you approached someone, or they have I'm actually not sure if you approached them or they approached you and y'all were sharing stories about bariatric surgery within three minutes.

Speaker 1:

I just, I was trying to get everybody to dance with you so I didn't have to. Oh no, okay, truth revealed. I love it. That's wonderful. Not that I don't want to dance with you, but me, and salsa is not my thing. But yeah, I openly said that I had bariatric surgery. She then said she had bariatric surgery and now we follow each other on Instagram and I hope we have her on here one day, because she's gone through even plastic surgery and stuff. So I'd love to talk to her about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but you've become a resource for other people, which I think is really something to be proud of for the rest of your life, because it's you didn't just keep this to yourself, even though it's really freaking hard to do that. And that actually leads me to another thing that I don't think anyone who has gone through this process of bariatric surgery or considering it owes anyone their story and owes anyone any discussion about it. So, if you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to Like you don't Absolutely, and there's we've still have people like.

Speaker 1:

We interviewed my one of my family members and she said some of her family still doesn't know that she's had it, and so you're absolutely right.

Speaker 2:

You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, and I think that's something that I think people may feel obligated to sometimes, or other people may make them feel that way of you're a certain size and I need to tell you what to do about that and you need to listen to me, and it's. That's ridiculous. No, you do not owe your attention to anyone for that discussion.

Speaker 1:

And that kind of brings up a question to you is how does someone who is not completely wanting to be like, yeah, I've had bariatric surgery when people ask them how much or how they've lost all the weight they have? Sure, how do you, how do, how would you respond to a person that asked you that if you didn't want to reveal that you've had bariatric surgery?

Speaker 2:

So I have a couple of people have asked me about this and I think the advice is either you know that it's my business or if you'd like to have a conversation about that, let's. Let's get into it another time, or I don't really want to talk about that. It depends you. Again, you don't owe that story to anyone. If you want to talk about it and you feel comfortable sharing with that person in the context you're in, that's great. But if you don't, it's like somebody asking you can you tell me about your birth, how you birthed your child, and can you please tell me the details about it? And you're like what?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. But I think even telling people like I've just changed my lifestyle is a valid enough response, Because it's not a lie either because you absolutely have changed your lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely and I just I don't. I just really believe you do not owe that story and you do not owe your experience to anyone If you feel comfortable sharing it and you want to share it again in at that time with that person, because it also just might not be the right time to share it. If you're out in public at dinner with friends and somebody asks you that and you don't want to share it with the 10 people you're with, might not be the right time. Or it's a friend of a friend, or it's some random dude at a convention who's in your face. Like that just might not be the right interaction to share that information because it might not be used wisely by the other person. It might be used to judge you or it might be used to shame you or it might be used to interject their opinion on it, which really isn't welcome. Or it might be a family member at Thanksgiving dinner, and again that. The other thing to think about also is I do want to mention when we talk with others there is a lot of policing that happens around weight and there is. I have noticed sometimes that people after making big changes with their weight, even if it's with surgery without surgery in any way, they can be subject to policing from other people about what they eat or how they move their bodies or other things that they're doing in their life.

Speaker 1:

So right and I hate it so much. That's why I loved our clinic so much is some of our patients was like how do you eat around, danny, who is our, was our my dietitian? And I'm just like, look, danny, don't care what I'm eating. Danny's more worried about what Danny's eating. And, yeah, you're right, and I feel like even some of our other coworkers. I felt like I was under a microscope of what I ate. But then the people that truly mattered and understood how bariatric surgery works and everything, and even you're like, eat that piece of Halloween candy. But you're absolutely right for and that's another reason why I didn't necessarily put it on a billboard that I was having bariatric surgery, because I didn't want everybody to be nitpicking what I was eating or drinking or if I was even going out for a drink one night.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's yeah, so that so, when people have, if you have these conversations with people, one of the things that you've exposed to me is that it's important to set boundaries for what you want to discuss, who you want to discuss that with, maybe even when or how long it's going to take to talk about it, so that you're not just having these like open ended conversations with people and people get to talk, steer the direction of the conversation anywhere they want to go. It's more up to you. Does that like a maybe reasonable way to have that conversation if you want to have it?

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I feel sense surgery not only with conversations I'm able to set boundaries, but also just my whole life in general. So absolutely, boundaries in all of our lives, in all aspects is so important.

Speaker 2:

Right, and that's in personal relationships outside of this topic, but definitely on this topic too. And you actually have a friend who we did an interview with, jessica, who has a really excellent description of how she set some of those boundaries and that was definitely worth a listen, I think, on this topic specifically of how to support yourself Report from others after surgery in a way that that doesn't that. Yeah, that just really accomplishes setting boundaries really well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and she teaches, she continues to teach me every day, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then the other thing that I think you have definitely made it really clear to me and I have seen from other people go through this process is personalizing it and conveying to other people why this matters, like that you're doing this for your kids, that you're doing this to feel better, that you're doing this because you know you want something out of it that you can't get otherwise, and so it's not about the way, necessarily, it's not about a specific number or something like that, but it's about a lifestyle you want to have and personalizing it, because I really do think it's this sort of idea of it's really easy for us to hate on other people if we think they're doing something we don't understand. It's way yeah, it's like way harder to hate someone if you care about them and if you hear their story.

Speaker 1:

But even then, even if the words coming out of your mouth is I'm wanting to lose weight because I want office CPAP, I want my diabetes to be better, I want to move better, sometimes people, even if they are the closest people to you, don't believe that and will still say I think you're doing this to lose weight, just to look better. So, there's another thing you're dealing with is, even though you're saying this and you know why you're doing it, people think otherwise, and then sometimes it almost makes you question your oh yeah 100%.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let me talk about that first set because that is so interesting to me. Because people like go to the gym to look better, they wear makeup to look better, they wear clean clothes to look better if they do their hair to look better, but somehow if you do a medical treatment to look better, all of a sudden that's a no, that's a no go, it doesn't really Plastic surgery, though a lot of people are against plastic surgery, even if it's for a tummy tuck, that is literally just to get rid of yeast infections, because you just can't get them to stop.

Speaker 1:

People just think what they want to think, and it is very hard. I still struggle with it sometimes. But, I have gotten better of look. If that's what you're going to think, I can't change your mind. And it's not worth my effort to change your mind Definitely.

Speaker 2:

And you mentioned something there. You hit on something which is basically it's okay to walk away from a conversation or walk away from, yeah, whether it's with a health care provider or whether it's with another person in your life. You again, you just don't owe somebody that attention if they're not being respectful in it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, I've done that, even in a professional aspect, and I probably should have gotten fired for it, but I literally walked up, or got up and walked out and said I need to leave this conversation before I say something I don't want to regret, because obviously you can't take backwards. But yeah, please, there are people out there that can be your people. That's something I also had to learn, too is your job. You're not stuck in your job. You might be comfortable in your job, but you're not happy. Walk away from it. Same with your relationships If you are not getting what you want out of it, it is okay to walk away, because you are your number one priority, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And there's a lot to that, I think that I think what you're talking about is after reasonable effort. It's not like you yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're not talking.

Speaker 2:

We're not advocating at all. You have a conflict with someone and all of a sudden they're dead to you. That is not what we're talking about. Nope, I'm glad you clarified that. Yes, but what I think you're talking about is if, over and over again, you're constantly facing the same lack of respect or lack of boundaries or lack of support or whatever it is, that is an indicator of dignity basically in that relationship, then it's okay to no longer participate in that, because that is damaging and that's super damaging at the time especially. The other thing that I've seen with people going through this process that can work is because this can be such a touchy subject for a lot of folks and a lot of folks don't know how to have this conversation very well. It's like talking about money in a relationship which can be really tough for people, and so I think that setting time aside to talk with people who are important in your life, if you want to share this information with them or if they want to ask questions, I think this goes both ways If you actually set aside some time to talk about it and maybe go in with some ground rules about what that conversation is going to be about, absolutely, and time limit it Again. Don't let it go for hours and go all these different tangents, but maybe just talk for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and maybe say let's talk again about this when we have a chance, if there's more questions, so that people have a chance to really chew on it a little bit. And there's evidence that, especially for adults, we have to hear something or interact with an idea or information anywhere between three and seven times before it becomes something that we can accept. And I think that really applies when we're talking about difficult subjects where there's not just one clear answer or there's not just one obvious source of information that's infallible. There's a lot more to it than that, and I think so. Yeah, if you're having complex conversations like this, either from the person who's going through it or the person who's asking questions, having those kind of respectful conversations in a way that both of you have safety, both of you have a way out, both of you have a way to reconnect down the road and not have to solve and fix everything at that same time, may be a better approach than just confronting people or, yeah, doing it whenever, wherever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Why is it such a big? Why do we have to think so hard on how to have this conversation?

Speaker 2:

It's just it's still.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully in 10 years from now we won't. We'll be looking back on this and be like I can't believe how ridiculous society was. But that would be amazing.

Speaker 2:

That would be amazing. That would be amazing. I hope that's the case. I hope everything we're doing is obsolete in five or 10 years. I hope, yeah, I hope so too, for sure. Right, I hope so Because I think hopefully by that point we'll be more enlightened. I did have a couple of things I wanted to leave people with, though, because I definitely want to make sure that people who have gone through this process have a couple of kind of ground rules, I think, for themselves to think about. That's one that nobody should ever share your story or share your basically like your medical information without your permission. That goes for other people too. You should never be sharing somebody else's story of bariatric surgery or weight changes without their permission in a context where they would want it shared. And then who? I hope that all of us have kind of an open mind about this, because even professionals like you and me do not know everything about weight and do not know everything about bariatric surgery. There's still a lot of research on this topic and figuring out how things work and what things work, so it's an evolving thing that none of us know 100%.

Speaker 1:

So just to record Absolutely, yeah, and so, whatever we're saying, and if someone else is saying something different, not saying we're not wrong, not saying they're wrong. Yet there's so much to it for sure, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And we will definitely know more in the future about this topic, hopefully. And then the last thing I want to leave people with is that your value does not depend on someone else's opinion of you or external validation of you. And then thank you, Shout that louder, Thank you for those in the back. No kidding In this topic especially, I hear a lot of times that people are made to feel really awful by other people's opinions or by other people's perceptions of them, and we are trying to create this kind of podcast and to create these kinds of supports for people to hopefully, even if one person gets this out of it, I would be proud of what we're doing here. Tammy is that your value does not depend on somebody else's opinion of you.

Speaker 1:

And that is why I wanted to share you with the world yet again.

Speaker 2:

Tammy, oh, all right.

Speaker 1:

Before we get all sappy here. Thank you everybody for listening. Don't forget to follow us Head over to Instagram and look up Corbariatrix if you want to touch base with us. Otherwise, Maria, if we kept going, I'm just going to start crying, oh, cry.

Speaker 2:

Please don't cry, tammy. This is supposed to be a happy episode, absolutely. Yes. I'm so grateful to be here with you guys, and I hope that you tune in for the next episode too See you then Thank you Bye Awesome.